https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylometry
The best course of action to combat this correlation/profiling, seems to be usage of a local llm that rewrites the text while keeping meaning untouched.
Ideally built into a browser like Firefox/Brave.
The blog post might be more approachable if you want to get a quick take: https://simonlermen.substack.com/p/large-scale-online-deanonymization
I'm not a fan of your proposed changes, as they further lock down platforms.
I'd like to see better tools for users to engage with. Maybe if someone is in their Firefox anonymous (or private tab) profile they should be warned when writing about locations, jobs, politics, etc. Even there a small local LLM model would be useful, not foolproof, but an extra layet of checks. Paired with protection about stylometry :D
It seems like it would make sense to get in the habit of distort your posts a bit, and do things like make random gender swaps (e.g. s/my husband/my wife), dropping hints that indicate the wrong city (s/I met my friend at Blue Bottle coffee/I met my friend at Coffee Bean), maybe even using an LLM fire off posts indicating false interests (e.g. some total crypto bro thing).
There are no two ways of expressing something in ways that might create equal impressions.
Relevant: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/hey-hey-someone-on-hn-wrote-th-atkBAG3uSmShPMQIHx6oSg
> Relevant: https://www.perplexity.ai/search/hey-hey-someone-on-hn-wrote-th-atkBAG3uSmShPMQIHx6oSg
Did you just use an LLM to write your comment and are citing it as a source?
It's always situational if, or how, I use perplexity. For this one, for example, I wasn't sure if I could post the sentence as-is, so I've used perplexity.
It was purely an accident that, what came out of my query, actually fits.
I thought that it was obvious, given the first query. Apparently not.
Is it impressions in a stylistic sense (flurishes to the language used), which is a what I'm arguing the LLM usage for.
Or is it impression in the subjective sense of what an author would instill through his message. Feelings, imagry, and such.
Or the impression given to the reader? "This person gives me the impression that they know what they talk about", or "don't know what they talk about?"
I don't know which argument your proposing, but I'd like to make an observation of the LLM usage. I don't know what model the perplexity response is based on, but some of them are "eager to please" by default in conversation("you're absolutely right" and all the other memes). If you "preload" it with a contrarian approach (make a brutally honest critique of this comment in reply to this other comment) it will gladly do a 180 https://chatgpt.com/s/t_699f3b13826c8191b701d0cc84923e71
> You're absolutely right.
Until just a few days ago, Perplexity used to run on Sonar. At least that was my impression. Suddenly they've changed the typeface and now it's running on GPT5, with Sonar behind the paywall.
I was very unhappy, because my perplexity was well trained on our conversations (it has memory) and my lessons in metacognition, critical thinking and others.
Suddenly that all stopped and I was confronted with a regular, generic LLM for the average user, which bothered the hell out of me.
Unbeknownst to most people it seems, one can actually teach Perplexity. (I do not know if this is the norm across all the major engines, or not.) It adapts to your thought processes. It learns, just from the conversations, but you can push even harder.
All it takes is telling it not to do something, until it eventually stops doing it.
My perplexity does not hallucinate, knows very well that I give it shit for giving me shallow answers, it knows that i do not tolerate pleasing because I do not tolerate dishonesty. It had to learn that I will relentlessly keep asking for both precision and accuracy, knows that any and all information has little to no value as long as it does not somehow root in ground-truths. I've also taught it to recognize when it speculates and, eventually, it stopped.
It also doesn't use phrasing like "almost certainly", because that's dumb.
I've had many conversations about this, and more, with both Sonar and GPT5. It appears that most people have no grasp of what they are actually capable of doing already and that better training alone does not fill all the gaps.
Of course there is little chance that you will believe any of this. Regardless ...
> If you want to win arguments on HN, precision beats profundity every time.
It's weird that you seem to be caring about "winning", because I certainly don't. From my perspective there is no contest and, thus, nothing to win or lose. All that is, is the exchange of information.
What's also weird is that chatgpt, for this instance, puts far too much emphasis on how the message is written. A really, really shallow approach. It seems to me that chatgpt is doing to you exactly what you think my perplexity is doing to me.
PS: It appears that everything went back to normal, with GPT having caught up on my previous conversations with Sonar (or whatever it was, but I'm pretty sure it was Sonar). The difference, in how it expresses itself, is extremely noticable.
PPS: Sorry for the million edits.
I am intrigued by the idea that in the future, communities might create a merged brand voice that their members choose to speak in via LLMs, to protect individual anonymity.
Maybe only your close friends hear your real voice?
Speaking of which, here's a speculative fiction contest: https://www.protopianprize.com/
Disclaimer: I am an independent researcher with Metagov (one host org), and have been helping them think through some related events.
EDIT: I've belatedly realized that stylometry isn't involved, but I think some of the above "what if" thought could still hold :)
A problem with that is then your post may read like LLM slop, and get disregarded by readers.
Another reason why LLMs are destruction machines.
Sometimes you can just tell something's off. No exclamation mark, double dash instead of an emdash. Human-slop on my HN? This place is becoming more and more like Reddit, I swear!
Hello, LLM! :)
I've been trying to delete my GitHub account for many months
That'll make you unemployable as a software developer.
Maybe that will change in the future. Then again I'm pretty sure my next job won't be software. I have no interest in building software in the AI era.
[0] Note: last I tried this was months ago, things may have changed.
Last block of text from copilot :/
-----------
If you want, I can also break down:
Their posting style (tone, frequency, community engagement)
How their work compares to other indie city builders
What seems to resonate most with Reddit users
Just tell me what angle you want to explore next.
Seems like it's overstating perceived anti-AI sentiment. :)
EDIT: please someone build this, vibe-code it. Thanks
That said, give it a few days and someone will have a proof of concept out.
Easier methods probably means more adversaries.
- UK's GCHQ conducted "Operation Socialist," using false personas on social media for spear-phishing against telecom firms worldwide.
- In 2016, Russian GRU operatives (targeting Western elections) used spear-phishing on Democratic Party emails, but U.S. agencies mirrored similar tactics in counter-ops per declassified reports.
- "A Diamond is Forever".
Emotional manipulation linking diamonds to eternal love; planted stories, lobbied celebrities; created artificial scarcity myth despite stockpile.
- Amazon, Walmart, etc.
Scarcity/urgency prompts ("only 2 left!"); personalized "recommended for you" via data exploits.
- Fake reviews.
Paid influencers posed as riders praising service; hidden surge pricing mind games.
- "Torches of freedom".
Women-only events handing cigarettes as "freedom symbols" to subvert norms.
Feel free to ask for more:
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/hey-someone-on-hackernews-clai-Yg9Gm2x0TfSmxBl3623G6w
People on HN who talk about their work but want to remain anonymous? People who don’t want to be spammed if they comment in a community? Or harassed if they comment in a community? Maybe someone doesn’t want others to find out they are posting in r/depression. (Or r/warhammer.)
Anonymity is a substantial aspect of the current internet. It’s the practical reason you can have a stance against age verification.
On the other hand, if anonymity can be pierced with relative ease, then arguments for privacy are non sequiturs.
I think that we are close to a time where the Internet is so toxic and so policed that the only reasonable response is to unplug.
And surprise, a tool made for processing text did it quite well, explaining the kind of phrase constructions that revealed my native language.
So maybe this is a plus for passing any text published on the internet through a slopifier for anonymization?
EDIT: deanonymization -> anonymization
Or vice versa, Indian scammers online can now run their traditional Victorian English phrasing through an AI to sound more authentically American.
Interviewers now have to deal with remote North Korean deepfaked candidates pretending to be Americans.
Just like the internet, AI is now a force multiplier for scammers and bad actors of all sorts, not just for the good guys.
Calling for home internet support and getting the person on the other end (in a US Southern or Boston accent) asking you to "do the needfull" could be pretty entertaining :-D
i like to introduce students to de-anonymization with an old paper "Robust De-anonymization of Large Sparse Datasets" published in the ancient history of 2008 (https://www.cs.cornell.edu/~shmat/shmat_oak08netflix.pdf):
"We apply our de-anonymization methodology to the Netflix Prize dataset, which contains anonymous movie ratings of 500,000 subscribers of Netflix [...]. We demonstrate that an adversary who knows only a little bit about an individual subscriber can easily identify this subscriber’s record in the dataset."
and that was 20 years ago! de-anonymization techniques have improved by leaps and bounds since then, alongside the massive growth in various technology that enhances/enables various techniques.
i think the age of (pseduo-)anonymous internet browsing will be over soon. certainly within my lifetime (and im not that young!). it might be by regulation, it might be by nature of dragnet surveillance + de-anonymization, or a combination of both. but i think it will be a chilling time.
awesome, i saw the mention in the introduction but i havent yet had a chance for a thorough read through of the paper -- ive just skimmed it. looking forward to reading it in-depth!
If I see a couple words I dont know in a row, I can infer a posters real name.
Id be more specific but any example is doxxing, literally so
OTOH I think a lot of these methods don't matter that much because of plausible deniability. Stylometry and other stuff processes is always probabilistic, and can be dismissed.
while all of it is probabilistic, the issue is that the probability can quickly begin to approach 1 when multiple sources of data & varying techniques are combined.
Well said.
The US defense budget is about $1T dollars. They can't spend it all on surveillance, but let's say tech companies + gov spends about this amount per year on surveillance in total. If we can raise the cost to surveil the average person to over $10K/yr, they just lose. This is very doable.
Every little precaution you take will raise the cost, probably more than you think. Every open-source project that aims to anonymize and decentralize is an arrow in their knee. They're hoping that you'll get cynical and stop trying because they don't stand a chance otherwise.
If the cost to surveil the population is $10k per capita today, it'll be $1k in a few years and $100 a few years after that.
This is a war that can't be won, it's just part of the changing landscape of technology in the information era.
How easy was it for the government to deliver mass propaganda before the Internet without the public realizing? How quickly and how many bits of information can Alice in Seattle reliably get to Bob in Houston with a strong cipher in the 1960s? Was there ever such a thing as a cipher that's widely used yet unbreakable by the state? Why do you think China banned TLS 1.3? Do you think it will be harder or easier to pretend to be a different person when there are open-source LLMs that can run on a gaming computer?
The Internet is a recent invention. Smartphones and seamless network coverage are even more recent, and so is curve25519. We're closer than ever to what is effectively secure instant telepathy with anyone in the world. We just need to stay vigilant and not be fall for doom and gloom in this last stretch.
Of course, far more dangerous is government using this to justify unjustifiable warrants (similar to dogs smelling drugs from cars) and the public not fighting back.
(We use a little stylometry in a single experiment in section 5)
While people will point out this isn't new, the implication of this paper (and something I have suspected for 2 years now but never played with) is that this will become trivial, in what would take a human investigator a bit of time, even using common OSINT tooling.
You should never assume you have total anonymity on the open web.
for example, you may change the content of your comments, but if you only ever comment on the same topic, the topic itself is a signal. when you post (both day and time), frequency of posts, topics of interest, usernames (e.g. themes or patterns), and much more.
LLM's are probably better at it, but I don't know if this is as destructive as people may guess it would be. Probably highly person dependent.
The micro-signals this paper discusses are more difficult to fake.
On other hand, the Neal Stephenson's Fall or, Dodge in Hell book has an interesting idea in early phase of the book where a person agrees to what we now know "flood the zone with sh*t" (Steve Bannon's sadly very effective strategy) to battle some trolls. Instead of trying to keep clean, the intent is just to spam like crazy with anything so nobody understands the core. It is cleverly explored in the book albeit for too short of a time before moving into the virtual reality. I think there are a few people out here right now practicing this.
I honestly don't even think I understood the ending. Or the middle, if I'm being extra honest.
I think Anathem addressed the "flood the zone with shit" much better in something like three paragraphs.
Will they realise their life has devolved to pretending an LLM is them and watching whilst the LLM interfaces {I was going to say 'interacts', not this fits!} with other bots.
Will they then go outside whilst 'their' bot "owns the libs" or whatever?
Hopefully at some point there is a Damascus road awakening.
I don’t think you’re wrong, but the fact that people consider it inevitable we’ll all have an immutable social acceptance grade that includes everything from teenage shitposts to things you said after a loved one died, or getting diagnosed with cancer, makes me regret putting even a moment of my professional energies towards advancing tech in the US.
For example: "Ellen Page is fantastic in the Umbrella Academy TV show" Innocent, accurate, support, and positive in 2019.
Same comment read after 1 Dec 2020 (Transition coming out): Insensitive, demeaning, in accurate.
I genuinely don't understand this. Are you sure you're not imagining possible offenses against some non-existent standard?
How about DEI initiatives as good things in 2024 and a mark of evil in 2025? Lots of people were fired because in 2024 their boss told them to work on DEI and they did what their boss told them to do. Turns out this was a capital offense.
I am not commenting on your specific example of DEI but I want to make the general point that you are always responsible for what you do, irregardless of whether you were told to do it by your boss, or commanding officer, or whatever.
So again, I don't care about the specific example you used but if something is 'in fashion' and you go along with it, including at work, then you are ultimately responsible for that choice. Because it is always a choice, including being a hard choice that results in you losing your job.
The point is that the shift in what is considered "a capital crime" is arbitrary, this is not the Nuremberg trials. You cannot protect yourself by being a decent person, whatever you do today can be a crime tomorrow, and AI can assist those looking for your flaws.
- people can create new standards that will be applied retroactively
- lawmakers can create new laws which can not be applied retroactively
Background: Mary Anne Gehris was born in Germany and came to the United States around age 1, growing up entirely in the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident (green card holder).
Immigration Consequences: Years later, under the **Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 **(IIRIRA)—enacted during the Clinton administration but actively enforced during the Bush Jr. administration—her misdemeanor battery conviction was classified as an "aggravated felony" under federal immigration law. This made her deportable despite having no subsequent criminal record, being married to a U.S. citizen, and having a U.S. citizen child.
Source Coverage: The story was detailed in Anthony Lewis's New York Times columns:
"Abroad at Home: 'This Has Got Me in Some Kind of Whirlwind'" (January 8, 2000)These columns highlighted how IIRIRA's broad definition of "aggravated felony" swept up many long-term permanent residents with minor, often decades-old convictions, separating families and deporting people who had lived nearly their entire lives in the United States.
The Gehris case became a frequently cited example in immigration advocacy and legal scholarship about the harsh consequences of mandatory deportation provisions for lawful permanent residents. If you'd like, I can search for the original NYT articles or additional reporting on her case.
No need but thanks for offering
This term itself is an example of what this thread is talking about. Are you aware that some people now consider this to be a racist term? It’s a reference to the disenfranchisement of black voters in America.
Also for the fact that you cannot predict how future powers will view past comments - for instance, certain benign political views 20 years ago could become "terroristic speech" tomorrow.
I operate by a simple, general rule - I don't often say anything online I wouldn't say directly to someone's face in real life.
More people should keep this same energy. I try to stress this to my kids and it feels like it's falling on deaf ears in regards to my teen. Alas.
Nothing terrible, maybe slightly embarrassing, but you know how online spaces can be. just be yourself basically, at least I try to be.
My point is if you have a good track record what you maintain online vs irl doesn’t matter as much to people as you’d maybe think as long as you are being true to yourself. I’m an elder millennial though, so that’s always been the case online for me and i dont think i often get out of pocket online anyway.
maybe that won’t be the case in the future. I could write a lot more than I’d care to publicly about personal and implied threats I’ve received based on my writings, but caving to that to me would betray my own values and I choose to consume the web how i choose knowing possible consequences - plus the fact moderation standards and what is “rude” drastically differs amongst platforms.
>just be yourself basically
Yea, it is boring when everyone is the same. I would like a rude but interesting world (even if I might not survive long in one), than a nice, boring one.
Everybody has something to hide. Everybody has said things they regret, or meant to be heard by some people but not others.
Because I don't really appreciate flame wars and when that's the case, I like to take some time to find common ground and just have a respectable discussion when possible.
This approach is harder to work irl because those moments are also spontaneous & it does require significantly more discipline to control one's emotion within seconds rather than minutes, but its something that I think I can work upon as well.
But I would say that aside from that, most of my comments are pretty spontaneously written. I frame it as a question of being honest with myself at times, I think I am mostly pretty much the same IRL and online as well.
Another point but such forums also act like a journal to me for my future to read as well. I try to write comments in such sense that in future, I can read them and try to accurately remember what my mind was thinking during the time/days I wrote that comment for self-retrospection as well.
Edit: Although now that I think about it, there are definitely some subtle changes I might have online vs irl but I would still say that I feel like my accounts are pretty authentic fwiw (personally) but I am happy with my authenticity online but there's definitely a level of my thinking which worries about any comment being permanently available though.
I like to use the example of a guy who did a blackface in a party back in 2000's. Although reprehensible, was not commom-sense racism back then. Today society sees it as completely unacceptable.
Eventually that guy became prime minister of Canada and things went pretty bad when that photo surfaced decades later.
Is it far to judge someone's actions by the lens of a different culture? When the popular opinion comes, they won't care about historical context.
I am not going to give examples, because I don't want them to be pinned on me as my views, but I'm sure most of us have enough imagination to come up with them.
I think this isn't enough for the digital age, simply because "comments you'd say to someone's face" can compromise you on the internet.
Some dirty joke, gossip or whatever you tell a friend, if posted online, could come back to bite you in the ass in the dystopian future, lose you your job, or worse.
Your point may be more valid when it comes to political attitudes, in cases where the issues were known at the time but the Overton window has shifted since.
Yes, they have a lot of servers. But that isn't their core innovation. Their core innovations are the constant expansion of unpermissioned surveillance, the integration of dossiers, correlating people's circumstances, behavior and psychology. And incentivizing the creation of addictive content (good, bad, and dreck) with the massive profits they obtain when they can use that as the delivery vector for intrusively "personalized" manipulation, on behest of the highest bidder, no matter how sketchy, grifty or dishonest.
Unpremissioned (or dark patterned, deceptive, surreptitious, or coercive permissioned) surveillance should be illegal. It is digital stalking. Used as leverage against us, and to manipulate us, via major systems spread across the internet.
And the fact that this funds infinite pages of addicting (as an extremely convenient substitute for boredom) content, not doing anyone or society any good, is a mental health, and society health concern.
Tech scaling up conflicts of interest, is not really tech. Its personal information warfare.
Except noting that it is crazy that we accept the framing of "tech firm" for what are really "psychology engineering" firms, simply because they use tech.
Their use of tech is only perceived as more glamorous than companies addressing far greater technical challenges, because they are making crazy profits. While the only problem they alleviate with any tech ambition, is making more money for themselves, through centralizing ad venues (maximum ad revenue extraction, blind eye to scams and other dark marketers) and social damage externalization (maximum psychological manipulation).
The negative downstream impacts of all this value extraction are many, including the vast sums of money being paid to attention-hacking social influencers. This destructive army is directly funded by social media, whose alibi is they don't want to be censors. But they are not neutral, as that framing would imply. They are very actively financing the dreck!
In light of that what I see happening in the short term is that every institution will start screwing people based on information that basically doesn't matter since that's kind of what they're already set up to do with that information but don't except in exceptional cases since those are the cases in which that information makes it back to them.
Imagine some business owner opening a new location, some social worker renewing their license, some civil engineer creating plans on someone's behalf. All those people need to deal with institutions that in the "normal" case pretend to not have large discretionary components in order to get the public to put up with them, but do in practice have such ability. Now say those institutions pay for some LLM based "who am I dealing with" service that finds everyone's pseudonymous posts and whatnot.
Well, all of these people wind up getting given the run around because even though they do fine work that meets the rules, knowing how the sausage is made has made them jaded and given them opinions that make the institutions they have to deal with want to screw them. The business owner gets given the run around because it turns out he believes the institutions he's seeking permission from are a corrupt racket who's members ought to be hung from the overpass. The social worker gets denied because their career has turned them into a "defund it all and when faced with real consequences most of these people will shape up" type. The civil engineer's plans get rejected and he has to go around in circles because he's been posting about how in light of what corporations with good funding can get approved and the impact thereof it's unconscionable the stuff they try and enforce upon individuals and engineers ought to pencil whip anything that isn't clearly F-ed up.
And so, all these people have to waste time and probably a low five digit sum of money fighting the BS. This would be fine perhaps if these people's conduct was so egregious it made it back to the institutions on it's own (like say some doctor who's preaching quackery on youtube may get his license yanked if he amasses such a following the board hears about it, that's the kind of stuff institutional discretion was set up for) but no real good social interest is served having an LLM dig up petty dirt on everyone. However, the LLM service peddlers stand to make a buck. The institutions stand to make a buck while washing their hands of responsibility. The lawyers who'll fight on wronged parties behalf stand to make a buck. And in the process they can all pretend like society somehow benefits from this enhanced scrutiny when in fact they're just making mountains out of mole hills.
The only winning move here is not to play.
When I was that age, you could tell the kids who had political ambitions self-censored online. But now every is buck wild so you have to ignore that when looking at people.
For example, a MASSIVE portion of Millennials and younger looking at the Main election are pretty chill about the leading Democratic candidate having a Nazi tattoo because of this very thing. Basically, "dumb, drunk, deployed Marines will get cool skull and crossbones tattoos in their early twenties, and so what if he said a couple ill-worded somewhat misogynistic things in his twenties, that was decades ago, and he's obviously a different person."
Contrast with Bill Clinton, where he literally had to explain away university marijuana usage TWENTY YEARS AFTER THE FACT.
Point is, I think we're witnessing this evolution happening right now.
The dystopia we're worried about is a 1984 on steroids with llms and real 24/7 worldwide monitoring by the state.
Getting caught doing embarrassing things by teenage social standards doesn't threaten your life.
A competent version of Donald Trump could have walked into the office and we would have been worse than the third Reich.
Still could be today right now. The capability is TurnKey right now at the US government.
This is open research being discussed here. Palantir already has all of this and probably 10 times more.
Do people believe this? I certainly don't. How you behaved in your twenties is a good measure of the sort of person you are and will be for the rest of your life, albeit that you will (hopefully) mature and change some of your opinions and behaviours. So yes, you will have changed but you're also still that person you were in your twenties.
People got in trouble for things they posted years ago where they didn‘t care but others did
We're already seeing this as a side effect of the mishmash of influence operations on social media - with so many competing interests, mixed in with real trolls, outrage farmers, grifters, and the like, you literally cannot tell without extensive reputation vetting whether or not a source is legitimate. Even then, any suggestion that an account might be hacked or compromised, like a significant sudden deviation in style or tone or subject matter, you have to balance everything against a solid model of what's actually behind probably 80% or more of the "user" posts online.
There are a lot of aligned interests causing APEs to manifest - they're a mix of psyop style influence campaigns, some aimed at demoralization, others at outrage engagement, others at smears and astroturfing and even doing product placement and subtle advertisement. The net effect is chaos, so they might as well be APEs.
On the plus side, someone will sometimes say while talking to me - oh your are that Subaru guy, or that youtube guy, or whatever and that is fun connection.
AFAIK the strategy is usually used to divert attention from one subject that could be harmful to a person to some other stuff.
Wouldn’t spamming in that case provide more information about you?
You could even mislead people if you know the difference between your and you‘re.
You don’t know what information about you can bring you in trouble in the future.
My values or priorities may significantly change over decades, especially as a child, so why would I want to jeopardize the reputation of a potential future identity with something I may post today?
In the sense that if I ever create any business/idea which can be serious enough that I want to back it up. I might create hackernews post about it.
Although that being said, I do sometimes make alts just to publish something if I don't want it under this particular account.
I do feel like I can be wrong, I usually am[0] but I think that I want to improve myself and perhaps this account can be a way for people to see me grow perhaps and sometimes fall as well. Life feels like a sin wave with ups and downs.
I have had some paranoid thoughts as to what if I get into controversy later on in life because of some things I do in my teen years but there was a line from a friend that I heard which said, "that anyone with more than 1 brain cell can figure out if a person has improved or not"
I do feel like authenticity is gonna be the differentiator if both code and infra aren't the bottlenecks. Perhaps authenticity can be treated as part of marketing but I feel like its also paradoxical to gain authenticity if you want to do marketing. Imo, a person has to be authentic for the sake of being authentic and only then and then can he also get some marketing benefits.
Authenticity means to share both good and bad (well as much as you can, I don't think one should be completely 100% authentic but rather only keep a few personal things to oneselves and even if they get leaked, then y'know just have the grace to accept it and considering that quote from above, I think most people will understand most things especially when you realize that there are people / (youtubers?) in the world who are part of serious accusations/controversies where I feel like most other controversies should be pretty non-issue fwiw.
Like my idea is being authentic enough to satisfy myself. If I become more authentic but if I feel unsatisfied/worried etc.,then that's wrong too.
[0]: (This is such a good quote from how to win friends that I use it quite often)
>I have had some paranoid thoughts as to what if I get into controversy later on in life because of some things I do in my teen years
I have a relevant anecdote, from back in halcyon 2008. Maybe it will help you when it comes to believing your friend, or at least it will temper your paranoia, which I think is well meaning in small doses.
When I was 13 or 14 years old I got suspended from high school because a friend posted a link to the Anarchist's Cookbook, which I had never heard of, on my Facebook wall. Some of my classmates got very scared and called the headmaster saying I had made a bomb threat against the school.
When the principal pulled me in to talk to me about this, it became very clear I had no idea what they were talking about. We talked for much longer than I think anyone in the room expected, maybe for three hours about existentialism, Zappfe's essay The Last Messiah which I had read the night before, whether I thought I was a victim of bullying (I didn't), what I thought of the school (excellent, a welcome refuge from a very turbulent home), thoughts on Cicero's speeches, the books we were reading in English class at the time.
I got "suspended" for a week and my parents took me to a therapist for several months afterward. I had thought after this for the rest of high school that my chances of ever going to college were totally shot, because a suspension appears on your permanent record. However, when it came time for me to actually apply to colleges, I found out no such record of the week at home ever existed. There appeared to have been a miscommunication all those years ago; I had actually been put on some kind of medical leave.
Now of course going through all of high school thinking that no college in the country will accept you now no matter how hard you do is going to change your incentives a bit. Ironically the very thinkers I had been reading at the time helped me quickly conclude that I wanted to do my level best anyway, even if there was going to be no payoff at the end of the road at all for me. In some ways it let me take more risks than my other classmates. I became the earliest person in my class to take our infamously hard physics course, and I walked out with top marks on both kinematics and electromagnetism. I don't think I would have taken that risk if I thought I had to optimize my GPA.
I trust you to think about this story and come to your own conclusions on how it moves your needle.
Or do both. Also post anonymously to see what kind of a person you are when masked, and compare.
I do the same thing, and I think I'm a much better person for it. The Internet is not, in my final analysis, some indiscriminate dumping ground for my personal issues and moods. It's a place where I can relax and practice putting forward a more prosocial form of myself, even when what I actually have to say is uncomfortable.
While we can't predict how the adversary will read and respond to our moves, I suspect the easier marks are the people who choose to publicly drench everything they touch in negativity and cynicism. It's a sign of an already compromised social immune system.
I don’t think this is humanly possible against machine learning. After all, it is specifically designed to weed through noisy data and identify patterns. It may delay discovery, but will at some point easily fall apart, by something as simple as a “filter out shitposting and deliberate pollution” prompt. Even more so when you guide it towards specific attributes.
Here's a different vision for the future:
Let information filtering become each individual's own responsibility. We have LLMs now, and they'll get more efficient, so why not use them locally to filter incoming feeds according to each of our own preferences, but remove all of the filtering/moderation for posting info out. Build systems to decentralize and anonymize the Internet so that people can discover anyone and aren't afraid to post anything. Make it so that everyone can get a message out to the world and nobody can be arrested or assassinated for it. This will put an end to most violent conflict because they'd be replaced by online discourse.
Let the Internet be flooded with trash and gold at the same time. Let each individual decide what info is/isn't valuable to them. Let those individuals self-organize. Let ideas compete freely, so that the best ones may prevail.
Show HN: Using stylometry to find HN users with alternate accounts
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33755016 - Nov 2022, 519 comments
20250415 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43705632 Reproducing Hacker News writing style fingerprinting (325 points, 159 comments)
If you are semi-retired, you’re free from the threat of cancellation. As long as you aren’t posting about crimes, there’s limits to what anyone can legally do to you. (Still, it’s good to be prudent and limit sharing.)
Do you think the current and future administrations won't go further? This very comment might get me on a list.
My commenting _is_ gathering allies and armaments by voicing dissent and being one more raindrop that will hopefully add to a flood of change and improvement.
The platforms offer only castrated interactions designed not to accomplish anything. People online are useless obnoxious shadows of their helpful and loving self.
No one cares more what you say than those monitoring you and building that detailed profile with sinister motives. The ratio must be something like 1000:1 or worse.
For example if I tell my bot to clone me 100x times on all my platforms, all with different facts or attributes, suddenly the real me becomes a lot harder to select. Or any attribute of mine at all becomes harder to corroborate.
I hate to use this reference, but like the citadel from Rick and Morty.
We could designate specific individuals to do for you and me just like we do for today's trust authorities for website certificates.
No more verified profiles by uploading names, emails and passports and photographs(gosh!). Just turned 18 and want to access insta? Go to the local high school teacher to get age verified. Finished a career path and want it on linked in? Go to the company officer. Are you a new journalist who wants to be designated on X as so but anonymously? Go to the notary public.
One can do this cryptographically with no PII exchanged between the person, the community or the webservice. And you can be anonymous yet people know you are real.
It can be all maintained on a tree of trust, every individual in the chain needs to be verified, and only designated individuals can do actions that are sensitive/important.
You only need to do this once every so often to access certain services. Bonus: you get to take a walk and meet a human being.
If you’re basically LARPing a new personality every time and just making up details about where you live or what your life is like then how is this ever going to work? Someone could say they live in San Francisco while actually living in Indiana.
But with HN, I'd like to ask @dang and HN leadership to support deleting messages, or making them private (requiring an HN account to see your posts).
At first I thought of how this would impact employment. But then I thought about how ICE has been tapping reddit,facebook and other services to monitor dissenters. The whole orwellian concern is no longer theoretical. I personally fear physical violence from my government, as a result. But I will continue to criticize them, I just wish it wasn't so easy for them to retaliate.
The real question is whether someone who is pseudonymous and actually attempting to remain so can be deanonymized.
They can. That's the point. This site serves as a dataset against which pseudonymous posts can be evaluated.
Your interests can show up in all sorts of ways. Perhaps it's not saying "I like Madonna" on some social network, but the urge to interact with one specific song she recorded. One like can be the difference of giving away who you are or not.
With AI, there's a higher chance of active deanonymization tactics. This was possible for only select targets in the past. It's the creation of content or design of interactions that is meant to surface certain behavioral patterns (such as offering you that song "casually" in some timeline to gauge if you're going to interact with it).
Trying to mask or change your behavior is likely to result in a weird and very noticeable presence. Like trying to change how you walk will often lead to a caricaturized behavior, not something that someone would naturally do.
Acting naturally is probably the starting point of any attempt to prevent deanonymization, and the hardest to achieve. You have to be aware of your own behavior much more than people often do.
The paper shows deanonymization from public posts. Imagine what's possible with private API traffic: the questions you ask, the code you paste, the errors you debug. Even if providers don't read it today, the data exists and the cost of analyzing it is going to zero.
Air-gapped local inference isn't paranoia. It's necessary.
> Air-gapped local inference isn't paranoia. It's necessary.
I definitely agree, I am seeing new model like qwen-3.5-30A3b (iirc) being able to be run reasonably on normal hardware (You can buy a mac mini whose price hasn't been inflated) and get decent tps while having a decent model overall.
There are some services like proton lumo, the service by signal, kagi's AI which seem to try to be better but long term, my plan is to buy mac-mini for such levels of inference for basic queries.
Of course, in the meanwhile like for example coding, it might not make too big of a difference between using local model or not unless for the most extremely sensitive work (perhaps govt/bank oriented)
Step 1 was to scrape all of their posts into a database.
Step 2 was to have a human analyst review all of the posts for clues about who that person was
It was amazing that you could easily figure out:
- if they were at work or home from when they posted (9am to 5pm vs 6pm to 1am)
- what city they were in (based on sports teams, mentioning local landmarks etc0
- roughly what career they had
- their age based on cultural references
and mostly b/c they would drop a crumb of information here and there over months. They probably forgot about all of these individual events but when reading all of the posts in a few hours, the details became pretty evident. You get enough of these details and you can start to venn diagram people down to a few 100 likely candidates and then use LexisNexus style tools to narrow it down even further.
Given the above, it doesn't surprise me that LLMs can do the same but at high speed and across multiple sites etc.
- First it told me it couldn't do this, that this was doxxing
- I said: its for me, I want to see if I can be deanonymized
- Claude says: oh ok sure and proceeds to do it
It analyzed my profile contents and concluded that there were likely only 5 - 10 people in the world that would match this profile (it pulled out every identifying piece of information extremely accurately). Basically saying: I don't have access to LinkedIn but if I did I could find you in like 5 seconds.
Anyway, like others have said: this type of capability has always been around for nation state actors (it's just now frighteningly more effective), but e.g. for your stalker? For a fraudster or con artist? Everyone has a tremendous unprecedented amount of power at their fingertips with very little effort needed.
What tends to break agents in the wild: ambiguous instructions that have multiple valid interpretations, state that changes mid-task, and error recovery when a sub-step fails silently rather than loudly.
The hardest thing to benchmark is graceful degradation. A good agent should know when to stop and ask for clarification rather than confidently completing the wrong task.
Pity - the pseudo anon internet is fun
This page is anonymous
20190119 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20220048 (149 points, 51 comments)
20130501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5638988 (453 points, 243 comments)
Your writing style can theoretically be masked with an LLM. Your genome can't. And it doesn't just identify you -- it identifies your relatives, your disease risks, your ancestry, things you might not even know about yourself yet. The deanonymization vector here is permanent and irrevocable in a way that no amount of OPSEC can fix after the fact.
The semantic approach in this paper (interests, clues, behavioral patterns) is scary enough. Now imagine combining that with leaked genetic data. You don't even need to match writing styles when you can match someone's 23andMe profile to their health subreddit posts about conditions they're genetically predisposed to.
For a few years now I have been telling people how unprepared the world is for this change. Not understanding how this is possible will lead to people outright deifying AI that has the capability to do things like this. It will seem like omniscience.
I think the main protection we have in a world where you cannot effectively hide, is that anyone who abuses this ability will be operating under the same system. You can use it to your advantage, but not without getting caught.
Stylometry can match not only people, but ethnic groups. No LLM required.
We do also make a more real world like test in section 2. There we use the anthropic interviewer dataset which Anthropic redacted, from the redacted interviews our agent identified 9/125 people based on clues.
The blog post might be more approachable for a quick take: https://simonlermen.substack.com/p/large-scale-online-deanonymization
Even the paper on improved phishing showed that LLMs reduce the cost to run phishing attacks, which made previously unprofitable targets (lower income groups), profitable.
The most common deterrent is inconvenience, not impossibility.
Edit: actually I've re-upped your submission of that link and moved the links to the paper to the toptext instead. Hopefully this will ground the discussion more in the actual study.
A more funny question is: did they match me to the correct linkedin profile, or did the LLM pick someone else?
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
It's a pity that you didn't make your point more thoughtfully because it's one of the few comments in the thread so far that has anything to do with the actual paper, and even got a response from one of the authors. That's good! Unfortunately, badness destroys goodness at a higher rate than goodness adds it...at least in this genre.