hubertzhang3 days ago
Does Neki still need sharding key in query, just like Citus?
Feels like it might be very useful since a lot of new technologies came out since spinning disks.
The Postgres team is working on replacing Postgres. With even better Postgres.
And then to lesser degrees you've got Yugabyte, AlloyDB, and Aurora DSQL (and certainly more I'm forgetting) that only replace parts of Postgres.
The MVCC that Postgres uses(and no one else) is like 50yo outdated concept they still cling to. So just by virtue of that, it makes PGSQL the most archaic db on the market nowadays.
I never understood why PGSQL had so many fanboys, yet every major tech company always ditches it for mysql... i guess it is the case of "Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king." type of thing. People have to make a lot of noise to excuse their bad choices so they don't have to admit making a mistake.
Sarcasm aside, a great many projects started on MySQL and moved to postgres. As did projects using mongo, couchdb, firebase, oracle etc etc…
And I’m sure many projects switched away from Postgres to other technologies. Right tool for the job at hand.
In Oracle's database engine, when transaction A updates a row, it begins by reading the old row, updating it in-place, and adding the old row to the undo log. The heap row has a header with a list of transactions currently accessing that row and pointers into the undo log. If a transaction B comes in (while A is still ongoing) and wants to read the row, it startsby reading the current row header, where it sees that someone else has modified it, and then goes to the undo log to read the old version. (This is all very simplified.)
The huge benefit of the undo log is that the main heap doesn't get bloated with old data. Deletes cause holes, of course, but updates do not. Meanwhile, the undo log can be trivially be truncated when rows are no longer needed. Postgres, since it effectively mixes undo data with current versions, needs to do vacuuming. Postgres may win when there's a huge amount of contention around hot spots, but arguably loses when it comes to "normal" transactional volume.
OrioleDB adopts Oracle-style undo logging, among other table layout improvements, and their own OLTP benchmarks show extreme performance improvement over mainline Postgres.
I looked Neon recently, and it appears that it's designed as a SaaS product from the outset; while it is technically possible to self-host the individual components of the architecture, it does not look trivial, in large part because the control plane is closed source (and probably extremely specific to Neon's SaaS operations).
He is making a open source version of porting Vitesse to Postgres.
https://github.com/vitessio/vitess/graphs/contributors?from=8%2F10%2F2024
it is not at all accurate to say that neki is made by "the team that brought you vitess" and that multigres is somehow not
> I looked Neon recently, and it appears that it's designed as a SaaS product from the outset; while it is technically possible to self-host the individual components of the architecture, it does not look trivial, in large part because the control plane is closed source (and probably extremely specific to Neon's SaaS operations).
This is a good reason to go with multigres vs Neki (assuming Neki gets integrated into planetscale vs a standalone multigres ).
The two announcement's regarding Neki smells like its going to be proprietary or heavily tied into planetscale. See the gauging interest two months ago with sign ups. The current signing up ... Feel very marketing focused.
https://planetscale.com/blog/planetscale-for-postgres#nova-vitess-for-postgres
> If your company runs Postgres at a significant scale and this is something that interests you, reach out.
> Sign up for the private preview of PlanetScale for Postgres waitlist here.
https://planetscale.com/blog/announcing-neki
> To stay up to date with the latest developments on Neki you can signup at neki.dev.
Where as the multigres via Supabase points to github repo's, the license, etc...
https://supabase.com/blog/multigres-vitess-for-postgres
> Like Vitess, Multigres will be open source using the same license: Apache 2. You can follow the repo here.
We shall see, but one is running and acting like pure open source project, and another is being announced how the marketing department of a proprietary software company works.
And the timing is interesting. Coincidence that both Neki and multigres got announced right at the same time? I am suspecting there has been some background drama going on with planetscale and supabase. But that is off-topic.
Like i said, and i agree with the poster i responded too: That Neki smells like its going to be tied into planetscale.
Sugu hasn’t been at Planetscale for a few years
Today I'm announcing I've cured cancer. Well not yet, but coming soon hopefully!
I'm a little surprised to hear that PlanetScale is doing the work to make this considering I thought their entire system was based on Vitess. Maybe the demand for Postgres compatible DBs is so high nowadays that they need to offer compatibility for customers that don't want to port their apps to MySQL's syntax?
These are forks or extensions of Postgresql.
https://www.yugabyte.com/blog/yugabytedb-moves-beyond-postgresql-11/
> When we set out to make YugabyteDB Postgres-compatible, we took a fork of Postgres, and modified all of the operations that use shared memory or storage to instead talk to our LSM- and Raft-based distributed storage and transaction layer.
https://supabase.com/blog/multigres-vitess-for-postgres